Legalisation Discussions - RPLOG
Participants
Date
30/8/477
Log
Court is on early this fine morning, with a considerable docket of matters to be discussed. Naturally, it stands that the most important items will take priority - and the first one being the latest issue of the recognition of an as-yet unnamed settlement north of Silvervein.
The Good King is in attendance, along with Mione, although it appears that many of the court nobility and council have elected to be absent this early in the morning. Whether that bodes well for the motions being examined - well, that's another matter.
High Lady Longtail is already seated, her tails flicking lightly behind her. In front of her, a stack of paperwork, quickly tucked away after a few moments.
The she-cat makes sure to get comfortable, waiting for the king to officially open this court-session. Currently, the feline is dressed in an elegant, Shralestan-inspired garb.
In contrast, Selena is apparently more interested in her book than the opening ceremonies and significantly less impressively dressed - the same clothes she seems to always be wearing still there as she waits for things to the proverbial wheels to begin turning.
Cythim, a salamander, was wearing her red and white robe, made by shralestan tailors and more meant for socials events, and removed her hood from her head once she stood inside.;Once inside, she simply take place and patiently wait for the opening statement.
Technetium has not stepped out of her normal garb, either, in the court looking rather awkward sitting there versus many of the more elegantly dressed, while she waits for things to begin moving. She glances around at the various members of the court as they enter, and at the various ones already sitting.
Almost late to the party, Cassidy slips into the courtroom in her usual level of finery. Which is quite appropriate, as it turns out, with the fancy black and red dress. White ruffles billow around her ankles in her hasty pace as she settles in among the rest of the Solacious ilk that are in attendance today. She was most interested in hearing of such new settlements!
"And the next petiton on the docket is by..." the Good King shuffles about the papers Mione hands him with his huge hands. "Ah, the potential legalisation of a new settlement, submitted by no other than the High Lady Longtail herself." He whispers something to Mione, then nods. "High Lady, I have read your report and am appraised of the facts contained therein. However, those of the court are not - and since this does involve an addition to the formal subjects of Sweetwater, I would like to open the motion to them, too. Please explain briefly to the court the situation, and why you think this impromptu settlement should be made a formal one."
A nod, a small smile, as Flora sands up. "As members of the court may know, there is a small settlement just within Silvervein pass, commonly referred to as a bandit-encampment, yes," the she-cat rumbles softly, before pulling out a map of the area, holding it up, and pointing at the general location.
"However... LongTech Industries has made a visit to the area, to investigate certain rumours... What we found, was a mostly peacefull setting that could, in theory, provide a forward base in defending against threats from, for example, Mossy Stone... After all, one of Sweetwater's encampments in that area /was/ lost only a few months ago."
The King says nothing at first, but gestures at the court with a wave of his arm to open the discussion to all present. Almost immediately, the entire chamber erupts into a small hubbub.
Raising an eyebrow, the wolfess shakes her head slightly. "So, you are certain that the 'Bandit' in the camp's name is a misnomer?" She asks, rubbing her cheek. "There are still raids in the Silvervein pass. For that matter, legitimizing a bandit encampment would serve what purpose for the beings living in it? I don't believe beings accountability for past crimes should be overlooked on the sole premise of not doing so anymore." She replies. "And for that matter, wouldn't it be reasonable to ask for a representative for the camp to petition for the camp's status as a settlement rather than have someone else request its legalization?"
Taking a moment to glance over to Flora, she adds; "Frankly I don't understand why this has been brought up by a being other than the camp's members personally, useful location or otherwise. Could you please elaborate on your position for me?"
Technetium cocks her head slightly, then says, "Legalizing the encampment would also give us the right to put some form of law enforcement there, which would in turn hopefully cut down on the amount of raids happening if there were guards patrolling. Also, being able to put a taxation on goods sold legally would earn a few more coins for Sweetwater, although I'm sure they have enough already." She shuffles in her seat slightly.
Cythim lowers her head slightly and closes her eyes, thinking. As she continue to hear the others, she simply ponders what she know and her arguments, waiting before she tries to say anything.
Cassidy folds her hands in her lap, waiting and listening while her brow furrows gradually more. "I would like to hear from a representative of the camp, as well," she says, nodding towards Selena. "It is seldom that all beings are in agreement, but how -many- agree to such a thing? I am sure that there are several individuals there that may be happy living outside of the thumb of the crown. What of them? And how many are there that share such a mind and thought? That should be considered, lest it become an issue later."
The King nods. "Miss Hearthkeep and Lady Solacious both bring up highly valid points. Please explain why you are speaking for the camp, High Lady, as opposed to a representative. Surely even amongst bandits, there has to be someone who does not currently have charges pressing on them, or is eloquent enough to make their own case? I would also like, for the benefit of the court, to have the other objections addressed in public."
Flora smiles softly, unperturbed. Her ears are aflick, and she glances towards Selena momentarily. "Neither does Flora, no. Past crimes should not be forgotten or forgiven without reason. As such, Flora would like to suggest that the encampment as a whole could reach a settlement with the crown."
"The main advantage for the encampment is, of course, legal protection. After all, are the citizens of Sweetwater proper not entitled to protection by the crown?" she asks after a moment, before smiling faintly.
On the matter of a representative from the camp... Flora has spoken with one such being within the camp. And whilst Flora encourages direct negotiations, would they not be risking their freedom if they came to Firmament uninvited, and more importantly, unpardoned? As for those with a clean slate... As far as Flora has been informed, the camp has a certain hierarchy. It may be... Unwise to summon those that are not... Capable of speaking for the camp itself. Such would only cause internal strife, which, evidently, would not be good for negotiations."
Selena shakes her head. "Flora, you realise how dangerous a precedent that would be to set?" She asks, near dumbfounded. "Do you have any idea what you're even saying? With all respect, if you are saying that murderers should be pardoned simply because they've set aside their weapons, you're absolutely insane!"
The wolfess shakes her head for a moment, running her hands through her hair as she considers briefly before continuing. "Citizens of Sweetwater are entitled to protection in exchange for abiding by the laws of the country as upstanding citizens, not merely because they exist within the nation's borders. Look at Shanty town and tell me that all beings passing through there are 'adequately protected' before you turn to a literal bandit encampment."
"A being with charges against them should have to answer for them - That doesn't change their ability to speak about the state of affairs in their encampment, nor does it prevent them from discussing anything through other means of communication. There is such thing as a courier service in promise, and given we know where the camp is..."
Technetium attempts to reply to Selena, "Oftentimes people will go there or Shanty Town /because/ they have no other options, /because/ they have no way to get a reliable stream of crowns for themselves and their families without resorting to taking from those that have millions upon millions of crowns, when your average Being gets maybe 10 crowns a day." She shrugs, adjusts her cloak, then continues, "Getting a proper representative from the camp would be an excellent idea, though, and should be carried out as soon as we can."
Cythim open her eyes and get her head up back, feeling that she may have to add something. Moving her head toward Flora,she calm herself as best as she can and states, "While it may be good to act in favor of the campement, there is something i'd like to point out. You said yourself that the bandits followed a certain hierarchy. What would stop a part of it to just betray any given offers? Maybe they could just get the profits of the trades and move elsewhere, without any traces. And nothing tells us that they would stay there after any legal actions would have been taken there after the conditions are set.". She cross her arms. "As willing as they may be, they are still normal folks, and may or may not respect their part of the contract, meaning that it would need to properly compensate them in order for them to help us and not just disappear without any traces."
Cassidy drums her fingers on her knee, humming thoughtfully before exchanging a few whispered words with a family member sitting side her. After a moment she nods and speaks up again. "Like Selena said, many of them are outlaws for a reason. You cannot expect them to all just willingly turn themselves in just because they're suddenly part of the kingdom again, can you? They're out there and have banded together for a reason. They have solidarity and 'freedom' and I don't think they'll be willing to give that up. As for the Shanty Town issue, I also gree there. Shouldn't we be solving the problems in our own back yard, first, before making a new one?"
The King says nothing, but his face is carefully straight and expressionless, the kind one uses when one is consciously suppressing emotion. At length, he coughs, looking to and from the murmuring courtroom to his gavel, and gestures for Flora to continue, clearly unwilling to pass judgement until all matters have been brought up to everyone's satisfaction.
"Flora does NOT believe that murderers should be pardoned simply because they put down their weapons. However, Flora also believes that if they truly, fully repent for their actions, the penalty for murder should not be death, either. Incarceration, repayment of debts, and so on. A fair treatment that, when done, gives them the chance of proving their worth, their honesty, their sincerity."
"A free pardon is not what Flora is asking, at all. There are beings in this camp that have done wrongful acts, and they should be judged upon them, fairly. However... Flora has also seen the camp, and a lot of the beings in the camp are... No longer a threat of any sorts."
"As for other means... Perhaps Flora is providing such means currently? Flora has spoken to members of the encampment, whom, during these conversations, have requested that Flora sees if a dialog can be opened."
"In effect, Flora IS the courier, yes."
"As for following the agreements. Miss Salamander seems to suggest that the encampment is owed BY the crown, should they choose to join the nation proper? The crown would secure that encampment, and that encampment only. If they leave to resume conducting banditry, any pardons, if given, would logically be revoked, regardless of reparations paid TO the crown. In effect, even if such were to happen, the crown would come out for the better."
"Shanty town... Is a different kind of problem. If Flora could solve it, Flora would. Here, we have a settlement of beings, some of whom, at least, are willing to discuss repentance for their action. Repentance and repayment, not pardoning. Do we deny them that chance?"
Selena gestures back to Technetium. "Which is my a significant part of my point here. Shanty town has more than enough honest beings in it to warrant more official effort in maintaining it than a bandit encampment does." She states somewhat flatly, before drumming her fingers against the table. "I do not mean to say there is no merit in discussing the future of the location. As Flora said, there is the upside of its location relative to Mossy stone, and with recent events it would be remiss to ignore that."
"However, you're making assumptions on the grounds of what some beings have supposedly said. If a being is truly regretful of something they have done, it still does not change the fact that it has happened either. Nor does it remove the opportunity you grant that being in granting them another opportunity to do the same if they are not as trustworthy as you are assuming. There are enough cautionary tales about situations exactly like that, leaving me to say that the safest option is not to close your eyes to what has happened and what could easily happen in the event bandits are given amnesty."
"However, taking the freedoms beings are afforded by not being under the crown's jurisdiction could just as easily end poorly or see the encampment simply move away - and I doubt that such a thing would be beneficial on either end. While I do not see any reason not to discuss such an arrangement with the beings of this camp, I see no reason to trust their position either, and only time will tell if they are in fact honest."
"Shanty town is a different problem in many ways, but it is similar in several - both are areas with high concentrations of criminals, but presumably also some honest beings attempting to make a living in difficult positions. The difference lies predominantly in the scale of those operations and how they are presented to the beings effected by those operations."
"I would give the example of the soup kitchen that was operating in Shanty town - the locals were significantly less inclined to launch attacks on beings in the area for the time it was active until a certain black gop was found to have been killing beings in the area. Are you suggesting, then, that Shanty town's poverty is a problem too hard to solve because the solution is not as 'simple' as it is for the encampment?"
"Until we have more information from the camp itself, I can't in good conscience side with legalizing an encampment of criminals and pardoning them on premise of remorse. I cannot see it ending as well as you are assuming it will based on my understanding of the situation, and would rather see the resources directed to local solidarity and looking for solutions to generation-long problems that have been damaging Firmament from the outside."
Technetium notes to Selena, "She does note that legalizing the encampment is not pardoning the criminals, although, the fact of the matter that is either way, we will have to conduct a large 'round-up' operation in which we go and basically round up the whole camp for processing, and seeing if they are truely in a good heart or not. Legal or no, the area is still in trouble, and is still causing problems for travelers of all calibers." She shrugs, and then looks around again. "It would certainly be difficult.:
Cythim tries her best to aknowledge all the discussions going on around, having trouble to think of all the given matters at the same time. Visibly strained, she stay somewhat still.
"What would happen to whose staying in the campement but wouldn't follow the orders? And what would occur if the campement would be overrun by the shadows and undeads?".
"The problem with Shanty Town, compared to the bandit campement, would be his poor location, giving more problems than it would be worth it."
Cassidy raises her brow, but seems content not to press the issue at the moment. She's more interested in hearing what Flora has to say in response to the others. At Cythim's words, she does frown a little again. "Shanty Town? Poor location? How do you mean by that? It's a lot closer than the encampment is, that much is for sure." Leaning back in her seat, she exchanges a few more quiet words with her relative before nodding.
As the pace of discussion whips into a frenzy, the Good King brings his gavel down hard and fast, the single salient sound ringing through the chamber until everyone is sufficiently silenced.
"Certainly, I do not intend to blindly pardon criminals on a say-so. To do so would be an affront to justice and those wronged. On the other hand, I an not averse to those who are intent on repentance, nor shall I prevent them from turning over a new leaf.
"It will take a while to obtain a comprehensive list of charges which have been confirmed to be attributed to the residents of the camp in question. While this is being done, I strongly suggest that the High Lady arrange matters with the camp that a spokesbeing be appointed to plead their case alongside High Lady Longtail. Skin in the game, as the old Creator saying goes, and it would be better to have some. Since you have taken this burden on your shoulders, you shall see it through.
"These are my terms which I had prepared earlier, and in the light of the discussion I see no reason to alter them: on the part of the Crown, we will provide the inhabitants with adequate protection in the form of outriders garrisoned at the camp. Adequate training for the inhabitants to form a proper militia to defend themselves will be provided, as well as the possibility of a grant to help them develop their tentative village and fortify it against what lurks north of them.
"On their part, the inhabitants of said camp must cease their criminal activities, and support the garrisoned troops - the latter will account for their taxes, so that they can see their efforts are being reinvested in their community rather than going to a being miles away they have never seen before. The garrison will also serve as observers to ensure that they are indeed intent on turning over a new leaf. Once the full list of charges against them are determined, we will see which crimes are petty enough to be pardoned, as well as how much in reparations are due for the remainder.
"Are there any more concerns?"
"Which, of course, is why Flora does not mean to ask for an immediate pardon. As mentioned before, Flora would like to see the dialog opened, to see what can be done. No, Flora cannot guarantee that the beings within the camp will hold to their side of the agreement. No, Flora can not speak for the camp, other than to relay this message."
"However, Flora does prefer to see the good in people, rather than the bad. If Flora may... Flora has been reading up on some of the Creator's stories. Within them, Flora found... A certain tale. If Flora may?" she rumbles, before looking to the king, waiting for his permission.
"This tale, titled 'Androcles and the Lion', tells of a Creator, named Androcles, in ancient times. This Creator, nothing more than a slave, encountered a lion within a cave... Not a lion-being, a lion."
"Flora, of course, does not have to explain that this is a dangerous situation. However, this Creator saw the lion in great pain, and proceeded to help the lion by removing a thorn from its foot and cleaning the wound," she rumbles, taking a pause for a moment.
"This lion later saves Creator Androcles not once, but several times, and it became his faithful companion."
"Flora is not asking for mindless trust, becasue if Creator Androcles would've found any other lion, he would've surely been devoured. However... By helping another creature, not even of his own species, he helped himself threefold."
"If a being is wounded, is it not right to help them? Now, suppose that being is an enemy you are at war with. Would that change the rightness of helping them? Let them be judged for their part in the war later, when they can defend themselves proper. Now, if a being asks to prove his sincerity, is it not right to give them that chance, at least once?"
"Flora has no further statements or questions," she notes, offering a curtsey to the King, before seating herself again.
"I maintain my previous position. Beings are - for better or worse - not all as easily placated by removing a hypothetical thorn from their paws. Particularly when personal freedoms are concerned." Selena states, settling back into her chair. "I am curious what makes the encampment worth the paperwork, all things considered, but it would be wise not to provoke a proverbial 'Hornet's nest' either. If the beings do not want help from the crown, or if a dangerous minority does not, then there are due considerations to be made and I am certain that they will be addressed as necessary. I trust none of the beings involved to force any of these suggestions to come to fruition, but sugar-coating the situation or relating fables to make it sound more tasteful is not necessarily helping either."
Technetium takes a sharp intake of breath, and then says, "Yes, it is a tricky and unbalanced area, but that analogy doesn't seem to make much sense when applied. What thorn will be removing from them? Being out in the open with little patrols? Or maybe feeding a constant stream of cash from random travellers?" She sighs, then says, "Thank you for listening."
Cythim starts to relax her body as the argumentation seems to come to an end. She simply adds, "I have personally nothing to add, as i believe everything on the matter have been said." and and breath more calmy, visibly relieved.
Cassidy nods slowly, rubbing her chin. "Yes, I've no further statements at this time. I suppose we shall see what happens," she says as she adjusts her outfit, eager to either get going or to start on the next court issue.
"At this stage, we are merely seeking dialogue. There are no certainties either way. And as we all know, talk is cheap." The King brings down his gavel once more. "Now, with this matter settled for the time being, let us proceed to the next petition..."
