Revision as of 18:58, 21 November 2017

Participants

• Fenris
• Flora

Date

21/11/480

Log

"As far as Flora is aware, Shralesta was at a risk of running out of water, without the creators repairing the machines already present, yes? Flora would prefer that, or worse, doesn't happen."

"Flora believes that each and every being, each and every Creator should be judged on their merits. Flora believes the saying is 'Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?' yes?"

The Bull turns his gaze to the newly arrived highlady. "Who said that Shralesta was running out of water?" he asks, "It was not the Shralestans. We were given Promise and we were given everything we needed to make it our own. Our Creators were never meant to be a part of the equation. We were meant to be here on our own, to live our lives with the kind of purity and freedom that a child becoming an adult enjoys. Let our parents visit us. Let them rejoice in our successes, but why should we return to being children? Let the Creators watch as we solve our own troubles." The Bull shakes his head and addresses his little audience. "I don't accuse the Creators of any crime," he says, "I am sure they mean well. I only say that we are no longer the mewling infants that they want us to be. We do not need them. Our way of life has not suffered from their nearly five century absence."

"And yet, beings have had to deal with local wildlife, local diseases, and, need Flora remind mister Angus, the Shadows, whom -some- believe to have been a creation by the same Creators' company whom sent beings here? Need Flora remind Mister Angus that up until recently, Promise was for sale?"

"Flora is, of course, not saying that the Creator Saints shouldn't be praised for making Beings, no. It is a feat that no-one else has performed. But that doesn't mean the people they might've been working for were just as altruistic... And now Mister Angus is saying to shun those whom are actively working to preserve Promise as a place for Beings, rather than choosing the side of those who see Promise is a property to own and trade?"

Angus gives Flora a level look. "You can't argue both sides of the issue, Highlady," he says as the tigress' comments on the corporate nature of the Creators' interest in Promise, "You emphasize exactly my point. These Creators are not gods or saints. They are only beings of another kind, and while many of them are friendly and kind, we cannot forget that it is money that they are here for. Their entire race seems corrupted by desire for gain. The merchant Harkonson is not here for the sake of any kindness, but as a business venture. What I am saying is that we are better off without accepting their gifts, because they do not give gifts. There will be a price, and I think it will be one we are not willing to pay."

Angus gives Flora a level look. "You can't argue both sides of the issue, Highlady," he says as the tigress' comments on the corporate nature of the Creators' interest in Promise, send a murmur through the crowd. "You emphasize exactly my point. These Creators are not gods or saints. They are only beings of another kind, and while many of them are friendly and kind, we cannot forget that it is money that they are here for. Their entire race seems corrupted by desire for gain. The merchant Harkonson is not here for the sake of any kindness, but as a business venture. What I am saying is that we are better off without accepting their gifts, because they do not give gifts. There will be a price, and I think it will be one we are not willing to pay."

"Flora is not arguing for a side. Flora is saying that every Creator should be judged based on their own merits, as should each being. So far, Mister Creator Parson seems to be a good person, and Mister Creator Harkenson does not seem to be malicious in any way, shape or form. He is a merchant, yes, but so are plenty of beings, and they are not, intrinsically, greedy or self-serving."

"Why does it matter if Mister Harkenson desires to make a profit trading Crown and other being-made wares with other Creators? What difference does it make whether a being sells a statuette to another being, or to Mister Harkenson?"

The big Bull sighs and shakes his head. "You are missing my point, Highlady," he says, "I do not care about the toys and trinkets. If you wish to spend your coin on Harkonson's cheap knick-knacks, that is your perogative. What I am saying is that we do not NEED the Creators to interfere with Promise. We do not need their help to live our lives. In fact, I would go so far as to say that they envy us. Our way of life, though it may not be so easy or as luxurious as the Creators' beside distant stars, is more honest, purer than anything they have. Why else would so many be so interested in seeing it? In visiting to take part in it?"

"Curiousity. Why do beings study the relics of what came before? It isn't because beings are jealous of Promise's past inhabitants. It is because beings, and the creators that beings are created after, are naturally curious. If they -truly- wanted to live like beings, to live a 'purer' life, as Mister Angus put it, then why would they leave? If, as Mister Angus is saying, they were jealous, if they wanted to live as beings, why don't they? As far as Flora is aware, almost all creators leave after a short while. They come, indulge their curiousity, and they leave again... Some nobles tour different regions of Promise. Perhaps the well-to-do Creators do the same? Tourism. Flora wouldn't be surprised, no."

"Then let them come and go," Angus seems to be tiring of Flora's contrarianism, "Let Promise stay as it is. Let us develop at our own pace and create without interference. That is what I advocate. I could care less WHY the Creators come. I only say that we don't need their baggage. We don't need their lifestyle and we are not less because we do not live as they do." The Bull shakes his head again at Flora. "Highlady, what, exactly do you think I am advocating? What are you arguing about? I only want the Beings of Promise to stand up for themselves and not rely on these newly arrived Creators. They are just a subtle invader, rather than an open one. To rely on them would be to open our gates to conquerors."

"And mister Angus bases this knowledge on the Creators on -what-, exactly?" Flora counters, her tails swaying behind her, as she moves around lightly, completely ignoring his own question for the moment. "Unless, of course, Mister Angus is an offworld being, and thus... In direct conflict with his own statements and goals?"

"Flora hasn't met a single member of the church who was this skeptical of the Creators as a whole, this... Flora thinks the word is 'cynical'?"

"Mister Angus -seems- to be advocating against almost any interaction with the Creators. Flora is sure that is likely not the intention, but even if not, it remains a very cynical outlook, yes."

The Bull waves a hand dismissively. "And why shouldn't I be cynical?" he asks, "You said yourself that a group of Creators may have been responsible for the shadows. Why should I not question all of their intentions?" Angus shakes his big, bovine head again. "Benevolent or not, they would own our world. I only ask that all good Beings take pride in what we are and be glad of what we have instead of accepting easy luxuries. What is so strange about that? Is it not written in the first text that the hard right is better than the easy wrong?"

He does not respond at all to Flora's accusation of foreign origins.

"That still leaves the question of where Mister Angus's knowledge comes from. The first text is filled with praise of the Creators, not a bad word. Even the church of Thera'Dor, whom have had to deal with one of the worst Creators to visit Promise are, in general, full of praise of the Creators, not just the Saints."

"So, Flora asks again. What is the reason that Mister Angus is so distrustful of the creators, beyond the point of what most beings would consider reasonable doubt? Did a creator wrong Mister Angus? Or, is Mister Angus, as Flora suggested, an offwolder, whom, despite his own suggestions of keeping the creators out of beings' politics, interfering with beings' politics?"

The bull sighs, as other members of the little crowd mutter and murmur. "Highlady," he says evenly, "I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish. I am sure that I fight an uphill battle in keeping Promise pure for future generations of beings already, and you are hardly one to start questioning the pedigree of others." There are a few reactions to that comment within the crowd, but Angus raises a hand to forestall any comment. "I have nothing against the Creators individually," he says, "Many of our visitors have been very kind. But learning that a Creator business was responsible for so much destruction on our world, and here in Sweetwater left me shaken. I revere our Creator Saints. I love our world and the mandate we were given to tend to it and care for it as our own. I hold these Creators bound to the promise we were given generations ago. Why is that strange?"

He looks over the crowd and smiles. "And I am from Branshire, about two days walk from here, if you wish to seek out my origins, Highlady. I was initiated as a priest there several years ago."

"It isn't strange. However, the fact that mister Angus suggests there was a sincere promise of Promise at all, while simultaneously believing that the Creator Saints' employers were responsible for the Shadows is... Counterintuitive, at the least. And if one is going to make sweeping claims about a group of people, be they Beings, Creator, or something else entirely, Flora wants to understand why, and Flora wants to know the details."

"And the best way to test an idea is to put it under scrutiny, yes."

Angus bows his head to Flora. "And that is your perogative, Highlady," he says, "I only urge caution in dealing with things beyond our understanding. You said yourself in the King's Council that the Creators' offers of technology without teaching were of little value. You will forgive me if I imagine that those who gave us Promise were better than those who thought to take it away from us."

"And Flora is saying that if the Creators, or rather, a small minority, indeed intended to take Promise, then it is likely the same minority that gave it to beings. Promise was, and still is, largely inhospitable. You send people ahead to scout an area, to make it somewhat hospitable. If Promise was indeed meant to be taken from beings, then beings were those people, now free, partly thanks to pressure from the majority of the creators. If not, then, still, beings are now free to do with promise due to similar reasons.

"Flora has no intention of seeing Promise taken over, much like Flora has no intention of seeing Sweetwater ruled by Thera'Dor, Shralesta, or Cliffside. But in neither case does that prevent cooperation and learning. Ultimately, of course... The decission befalls the King and Council."

"Indeed," Angus agrees, "The decision does lie with the King. I only hope he makes the right choice." The Bull bows a little to Flora, then turns to walk away, leaving the small crowd that had gathered to watch a priest argue with a noble to chatter amongst themselves.